Our Family Matters Podcast — Episode 1
By Keith Pickard and Jordan Garcia, Attorneys and Partners at Nevada Family Law Group
Social media can create real problems during a divorce or child custody case.
A post that seemed harmless when you published it can look very different when it is printed, placed in front of a judge, and presented without the context you thought was obvious. Comments about your former spouse, photos from a party, arguments online, and even posts made by friends or family can potentially become part of a family law dispute.
In the first episode of Our Family Matters, Nevada family law attorneys Keith Pickard and Jordan Garcia discuss how social media can affect divorce and custody cases and what people should consider before posting while litigation is pending.
The simplest rule?
Before you post anything, consider how it would look if the other side displayed it in court.
Key Takeaways
Social media posts can potentially become evidence in divorce and child custody litigation.
A post does not always communicate the context you intended.
Negative comments about a co-parent can create unnecessary problems, particularly when children may see them.
Photos involving alcohol, parties, children, relationships, or other sensitive subjects can be interpreted differently during litigation.
Posts by relatives, friends, or a new significant other can sometimes complicate matters too.
If something online could become an issue in your case, tell your attorney before they discover it in the courtroom.
If you choose to use social media during litigation, thoughtful and truthful communication is generally safer than public conflict.
Watch: Social Media and Divorce — The Dos and Don’ts
In Episode 1 of Our Family Matters, Keith Pickard and Jordan Garcia discuss what they have seen happen when social media and family court collide.
Prefer to listen? Hear it on Spotify.
Can Social Media Be Used Against You in a Divorce?
Potentially, yes.
One of the recurring points Keith and Jordan make in the episode is that people often treat social media differently from other written communication. People say things impulsively, joke with friends, vent about their former spouse, or post photos without considering how those posts may appear later.
Keith compares the warning he gives clients to a Miranda warning:
“Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.”
That does not mean every social media post automatically becomes admissible evidence or determines the outcome of a case. But information published online can become relevant to disputed issues and may be presented as evidence depending on the circumstances.
Keith describes a recent case in which something his client posted online became “Exhibit #1” in the other party's motion.
The larger point is simple: once litigation begins, your audience is no longer necessarily just your friends and followers.
Your former spouse, their attorney, and potentially the court may eventually see what you post.
What About My First Amendment Rights?
You still have them.
Jordan describes clients who have responded to concerns about their social media activity by saying that they have a First Amendment right to say what they want.
His response is essentially: you may have the right to say it, but that does not mean saying it cannot have consequences in your case.
Having the legal ability to post something and deciding that posting it is a good idea are two different questions.
Divorce and custody litigation can place ordinary behavior under considerably more scrutiny than it would receive in everyday life.
How Can Social Media Affect a Child Custody Case?
Social media itself is not a separate Nevada child custody factor. However, what someone posts may become relevant to issues that courts do consider when evaluating a child's best interests.
That can include the level of conflict between parents, their ability to cooperate regarding the child's needs, and whether a parent supports the child's continuing relationship with the other parent.
This is one reason Keith and Jordan repeatedly caution against publicly attacking a co-parent.
A frustrated post about your former spouse may feel like venting to adults. But if the child can see it—or if it reflects ongoing hostility between the parents—it may take on a very different significance during a custody dispute.
Keith gives a straightforward example in the episode: publicly calling the other parent names can create an uncomfortable question in court when the child has access to the same social media platforms.
The safest audience to imagine when posting during a custody case may not be your Facebook friends.
Imagine the judge reading it.
Context Matters—and Social Media Is Bad at Context
One of the strongest themes in the episode is what Jordan describes as the “optics” of a post.
Consider a photo taken at a party.
You may know that the drink in your hand contains no alcohol. You may know that your children were completely safe. You may know what happened immediately before and after the photo.
A judge looking at a screenshot does not necessarily have any of that context.
They see the photograph.
Keith and Jordan discuss how a picture containing what appears to be alcohol, a party environment, or other circumstances that can be interpreted negatively may create questions that would never have existed if the photograph had not been posted.
That does not mean a photograph proves misconduct.
It means you may now have to spend time explaining something that never needed to become an issue.
That is an important distinction.
An Innocent Post Can Look Different During Litigation
Jordan describes another situation involving a completely innocent family moment that became contentious because of the context of the custody dispute.
Outside litigation, the photo probably would have appeared harmless.
Inside a contested family law case, the other parent interpreted the same situation very differently and attempted to turn it into a larger issue.
That example illustrates one of the most useful lessons from the episode:
Do not evaluate a post only by what you know it means. Consider how someone who disagrees with you could characterize it.
That doesn't mean you should live in fear of social media.
It means that during active litigation, a little restraint can prevent unnecessary disputes.
Should You Post About Your Ex During a Divorce?
Generally, turning social media into a battlefield rarely helps.
Keith and Jordan discuss seeing posts containing insults, accusations, sarcastic comments, jokes, and other attacks directed toward the other parent.
Those comments can create multiple problems.
They may intensify conflict between the parties. Children may eventually see them. Friends or relatives may become involved. And the statements may later be shown to the court.
Even a joke can land differently when removed from its original context.
Keith describes a case involving a post a parent apparently thought was funny.
The judge did not.
That is the audience problem again.
The person who matters most in a contested case may interpret your joke very differently from the people who follow you online.
Can Positive Social Media Posts Help?
Keith and Jordan also discuss the opposite situation.
They have seen supportive comments about a co-parent used to demonstrate that a parent is encouraging the child's relationship with the other parent.
For example, congratulating the other parent on an activity with the child or showing genuine support for the child's relationship with both parents can communicate something very different from constant criticism and hostility.
That does not mean you should manufacture flattering posts because you think they will look good in court.
Social media should not become a staged litigation strategy.
The practical takeaway from the episode is simpler:
If you are going to say something publicly, positivity is usually better than hostility.
And sometimes the best post is no post at all.
Your Friends and Family Can Create Problems Too
Your own account is not the only one worth thinking about.
Keith and Jordan discuss situations involving posts and comments from relatives, friends, and significant others.
Imagine that you avoid publicly criticizing your former spouse, but a family member repeatedly attacks them in comments underneath your posts.
That can still create unnecessary questions.
In one example discussed during the episode, a relative posted something negative about the other parent. The client immediately responded and told the relative not to talk about the co-parent that way.
According to Keith and Jordan, that response mattered because it demonstrated that the parent was actively trying to stop the behavior rather than encouraging it.
You cannot control everything another adult says online.
You can control whether you participate in it, encourage it, or make reasonable efforts to shut it down.
What If My Social Media Account Is Private?
Privacy settings can reduce who has direct access to your posts, particularly when children are involved.
But “private” should not be confused with “guaranteed to stay private.”
Other people may still see your content. Friends or relatives may discuss it. Screenshots may exist. Someone else may post photos involving you or your children.
Keith and Jordan's broader recommendation is not to rely on privacy settings as permission to post something you would otherwise be uncomfortable having discussed in your case.
What Should I Do If I've Already Posted Something That Could Be a Problem?
Tell your attorney.
One of the worst scenarios Keith and Jordan describe is being surprised by their own client's social media during a hearing.
If opposing counsel presents a screenshot your attorney has never seen before, there may be very little time to understand the context or determine how best to respond.
Do not assume something is harmless simply because you meant it to be harmless.
If you are concerned that a post, message, photograph, comment, or other online activity could affect your case, discuss it with your attorney.
And before deleting, changing, or otherwise trying to “fix” potentially relevant information, ask your attorney what you should do.
Social Media Dos and Don'ts During Divorce
Do:
Think before posting.
Ask how the post could look without the context you have in your head.Keep conflict offline.
Social media is rarely the right place to resolve problems with a spouse or co-parent.Remember that children may eventually see your posts.
Even if they do not follow you today, online content has a way of traveling.Pay attention to what others post involving you or your children.
Your account is not the only source of online content.Tell your attorney about potential problems.
Surprises are usually harder to address than issues your attorney knows about beforehand.
Don’t:
Use social media to attack your spouse or co-parent.
Post impulsively because you're angry.
Assume a joke will be interpreted the way you intended.
Assume photos explain themselves.
Encourage friends or relatives to publicly attack the other parent.
Assume a private account means your posts can never become part of the dispute.
The Bottom Line
Social media probably will not decide your Nevada divorce or custody case by itself.
But it can create evidence, generate conflict, raise questions, and force you and your attorney to explain issues that might never have existed otherwise.
As Keith explains in the episode, family court can place parts of your life “under the microscope.” Judges have limited information about what happens inside a family, so the information placed before them can take on greater importance than you expected.
Before publishing something during a divorce or custody dispute, consider one question:
Would I still post this if I knew it might eventually be shown to the judge?
If the answer is no, reconsider posting it.
Episode Chapters
00:00 — Introduction: Social media and divorce
00:36 — Why attorneys warn clients about social media
01:18 — When a social media post becomes evidence
01:47 — First Amendment rights vs. courtroom consequences
02:10 — Posting children and protecting privacy
03:24 — Negative comments and positive co-parenting
04:06 — How an innocent party photo can be misinterpreted
05:49 — Posts from friends and family members
06:19 — When an innocent family photo becomes a custody issue
08:37 — Using social media posts in court
09:18 — Why attacking your ex online can backfire
10:02 — Positive co-parenting online
11:36 — Managing comments from friends, family, and significant others
13:56 — Judges, perception, and the “courtroom microscope”
14:16 — What to do when problematic content exists
16:06 — Why putting arguments in writing matters
16:54 — Final advice and when to speak with an attorney
Frequently Asked Questions About Social Media and Divorce
Can social media posts be used in a Nevada divorce?
Social media content may potentially be used during divorce or custody litigation depending on the content, its relevance, how it is presented, and the circumstances of the case. A post does not automatically determine the outcome of a case simply because it exists.
Should I delete social media during a divorce?
Do not make assumptions about what should be deleted or preserved once litigation is underway. If you have existing posts you are concerned about, speak with your attorney before changing or deleting potentially relevant material.
Can posts about my ex affect child custody?
They potentially can. Public hostility toward a co-parent may become relevant when it relates to issues being disputed in a custody case, particularly when children could be exposed to the conflict.
Can posts from my family or friends affect my case?
They can create issues even when you did not personally write them. You cannot control everything another person posts, but how you respond to inappropriate comments may matter.
Is a private social media account safe during divorce?
Privacy settings can restrict access but cannot guarantee that information will never be shared, screenshotted, discussed, or otherwise become known during litigation.
Should I stop using social media completely?
There is no universal answer for every case. The safer approach is to discuss your specific situation with your attorney and be especially cautious about anything involving your spouse, co-parent, children, finances, relationships, travel, alcohol, or the pending case.
Talk With a Nevada Family Law Attorney
General information can help you understand potential issues, but divorce and child custody cases are highly fact-specific.
If you are going through a divorce or custody dispute and are concerned about social media—or any other issue affecting your case—the attorneys at Nevada Family Law Group can help you understand your options.
Schedule Your Free Initial Consultation
About the Attorneys
Keith Pickard and Jordan Garcia are attorneys and partners at Nevada Family Law Group. On the Our Family Matters podcast, they discuss Nevada divorce, child custody, and other family law issues using practical insight from their experience representing clients in family court.
This article is provided for general informational purposes only and is not legal advice. All legal matters depend on the specific facts and circumstances involved. Consult an attorney to determine which state, federal, and international laws apply to your case. Reading this article or watching the podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Full Episode Transcript
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00:00:00 Keith
Welcome to Our Family Matters podcast.
00:00:03 Keith
I am Attorney Keith Pickard at Nevada Family Law Group.
00:00:07 Jordan
This is Attorney Jordan Garcia, also a partner at Nevada Family Law Group.
00:00:11 Keith
So today we're going to be talking about child custody and co-parenting.
00:00:15 Keith
This is probably one of the most
00:00:19 Keith
I want to say high conflict, but one of the areas that we get the most contention about.
00:00:24 Jordan
You mean it's an oxymoron, co-parenting and divorce?
00:00:28 Keith
It often is, yeah.
00:00:30 Keith
But if there are no kids involved, the divorce usually goes a little easier unless they're just at each other's throats.
00:00:37 Keith
But when you involve kids, that's when things start getting a little more dicey, a little more high conflict.
00:00:43 Keith
And we're not going to talk about high conflict per se.
00:00:46 Keith
We're not focusing on high conflict cases.
00:00:49 Keith
But let's talk about child custody.
00:00:51 Keith
We probably spend half of our practice on child issues, child custody issues.
00:00:57 Keith
And so most of our consults will involve issues surrounding the kids.
00:01:04 Keith
Now hopefully the parents are able to co-parent well, right?
00:01:09 Keith
Yes, that can be an oxymoron.
00:01:11 Keith
But at the end of the day, what we're hoping for is to help people get to a point where, okay, their relationship with their co-parent has ended.
00:01:20 Keith
They're no longer living in the same place.
00:01:22 Keith
We're going to be exchanging the children.
00:01:24 Keith
How can we pull that off smoothly?
00:01:26 Keith
And you know, the one thing that the courts and the legislatures made clear is that the sole consideration
00:01:35 Keith
for determining custody is the best interest of the kids.
00:01:37 Keith
We'll talk a little bit about what that best interest standard is, but at the end of the day, hopefully all the parents coming to the table have that in mind.
00:01:48 Jordan
Well, and it's one of the factors, one of the probably most significant factors that the court looks at if it's an issue when we determine custody, and then we've got the two kinds of
00:01:57 Jordan
custody that we have to worry about, legal and physical.
00:02:00 Jordan
People come in, they always give me that point, look at what does that mean?
00:02:05 Jordan
And the way I always describe it, because I think legal custody is the most difficult to kind of get your hands around, is the three areas that people have the most issues with.
00:02:16 Jordan
And I say, when you have legal custody, and usually it's joint legal, legal custody is
00:02:23 Jordan
Your ability to have information about your child.
00:02:27 Jordan
That means information about their schooling, information about what does the doctor's office say, information about what they're doing as far as activities.
00:02:38 Jordan
The right to make decisions about those things.
00:02:39 Jordan
So deciding which school they go to, deciding whether they get a certain procedure, deciding whether they are in a soccer league or whatever.
00:02:50 Jordan
and the right to participate with each of those things.
00:02:52 Jordan
Can you participate by going to the school and doing things with the child?
00:02:56 Jordan
Can you participate by going to the doctor's appointments and interacting with the child and the doctor?
00:03:02 Jordan
Can you go to the
00:03:05 Jordan
activities.
00:03:05 Jordan
Can you be at the soccer game in the stands cheering on your child?
00:03:08 Jordan
Because if you don't have joint legal custody, you can't do all those things.
00:03:12 Keith
Right.
00:03:13 Keith
Well, and the thing that amazes me sometimes is how people think that they want to exclude the other parent from those decisions.
00:03:23 Keith
forget the fact that there's a legal presumption.
00:03:25 Keith
In other words, the court has to order that unless you can come in and show that would be inappropriate.
00:03:30 Keith
And that usually comes down to is the other parent a threat to the child's welfare or safety.
00:03:36 Keith
Absent that, you're going to have joint.
00:03:38 Keith
And it works against them, it works against their own interests if they're trying to exclude the other parent from those decisions.
00:03:45 Keith
Not only are you going to get the other co-parents back up, but
00:03:50 Keith
the child ultimately may suffer from that.
00:03:53 Keith
So the courts don't go there.
00:03:55 Keith
Now, that's not to say we do the same thing with physical custody.
00:04:00 Keith
Physical custody is more of a practical consideration.
00:04:03 Keith
Who can take the kids?
00:04:05 Keith
And in fact, in the initial discussion, we have a test that says, well, are both parents able to take the child for at least 146 days out of the year, which is about a 40%
00:04:20 Keith
marker.
00:04:21 Keith
Doesn't mean that we call it, necessarily call it joint legal custody at, or I'm sorry, joint physical custody.
00:04:30 Keith
If you get a little less than 40% or more than 40%, it's a guideline, right?
00:04:36 Keith
But that's the initial determination.
00:04:38 Keith
The parties can call it whatever they want.
00:04:40 Keith
But at the end of the day, there are some things that attach to that, like child support.
00:04:43 Keith
So usually we're going to see
00:04:46 Keith
people shooting for joint, but the social science that went behind the legislation is pretty clear that children tend to do best when they have both parents participating in their lives.
00:04:57 Jordan
And participating in a good way.
00:04:59 Keith
Yeah, right.
00:05:01 Keith
And if you don't participate in a good way, that's when the court's going to weigh in, right?
00:05:06 Keith
But the assumption is that all things being equal, that both parents are moderately capable of being a parent, then they're going to get to be.
00:05:14 Keith
And even if someone, something that just amazes me is how some of the judges will tend to gravitate towards, well, during the marriage,
00:05:25 Keith
somebody stayed home and the other went out to work, and so we're going to keep it that way.
00:05:29 Keith
Wait a minute, those were based on agreements of the parties at the time of the marriage.
00:05:33 Keith
Those are off the table now.
00:05:35 Keith
We can't enforce the expectations and what was established during the marriage during the post-divorce period.
00:05:46 Keith
And most of the judges get it.
00:05:47 Keith
And that's why we drafted the language of the statute the way we did, was to make sure that it's a perspective, it's a forward-looking view.
00:05:54 Jordan
Which most of the judges get, not all of them.
00:05:57 Keith
Most of them do.
00:05:58 Jordan
And it's not just married people, it's people that just have kids.
00:06:01 Jordan
No, that's right.
00:06:02 Jordan
It's the same deal.
00:06:02 Keith
That's right.
00:06:03 Keith
I was just reading yesterday in, I don't remember if it was a paper or something online, but we have gone from 72% of couples married
00:06:16 Keith
to now just barely over 50% of parents being married.
00:06:22 Keith
That's kind of surprising to me.
00:06:24 Keith
But at the end of the day, not all parents, in fact, a good number aren't married.
00:06:29 Keith
And fortunately, we've got the law in a place where those types of differences are considered.
00:06:35 Keith
It really just comes down to what's in the best interest of the child.
00:06:39 Jordan
Yeah, but the other parents being a bad parent, why do I have to let them have custody?
00:06:43 Jordan
Isn't that the complaint you hear all the time?
00:06:46 Keith
And even if they, maybe they weren't around, I have a case right now where dad left.
00:06:54 Keith
The relationship was so toxic, he went home.
00:06:57 Keith
He moved across the country.
00:06:59 Keith
Now, he wised up, he came back, and now they're trying to figure it out.
00:07:06 Keith
And the courts are going to let people step up.
00:07:08 Keith
And moms do that too, right?
00:07:10 Keith
I have another case where mom was the one who disappeared for a month and a half, no contact.
00:07:15 Keith
But that doesn't matter.
00:07:16 Keith
They're here, they're available, they're gonna be allowed to step up and be a parent.
00:07:21 Jordan
Well, the funny thing that I always tell clients in consults, which this comes up all the time, which is they're telling me how bad the other person is a parent.
00:07:30 Jordan
They didn't take care of this.
00:07:31 Jordan
They didn't show up for the games.
00:07:33 Jordan
They didn't really participate in this education that much.
00:07:36 Jordan
And I turn to them and I say, I understand all that.
00:07:40 Jordan
You've probably got somebody who's not going to be a great parent in your child's life.
00:07:45 Jordan
But did they abuse him?
00:07:47 Jordan
Did they neglect him?
00:07:48 Jordan
Do they abuse him or neglect him to the point that CPS had to get involved?
00:07:52 Jordan
No.
00:07:53 Jordan
All right, well guess what?
00:07:55 Jordan
Unfortunately, you have a constitutional right, an absolute constitutional right to be a bad parent.
00:08:01 Jordan
You have a right to be a bad parent.
00:08:02 Jordan
We don't let government come in and say, your parenting is bad and so you don't get to have custody of your kid.
00:08:09 Jordan
That's not the law.
00:08:10 Jordan
Now, sure, you can be parenting so bad that it would be to get to that level.
00:08:15 Jordan
But in general, just because you're not the best parent doesn't mean you don't get joint custody.
00:08:20 Keith
Yeah, I tell people all the time that if CPS hasn't removed the child, neither is the judge.
00:08:25 Keith
The judge isn't going to do it either.
00:08:27 Keith
So let's not go there.
00:08:29 Keith
You know, now, if there's abuse, you know, we've all had cases where there's legitimate abuse taking place that hasn't been reported.
00:08:37 Keith
Okay, well, CPS isn't going to remove the kid.
00:08:39 Keith
if it's not reported, and the judge will take it with a little bit of a grain of salt, but if there's evidence, if there's the handprint on the bottom, okay, the judge is going to take notice of that.
00:08:51 Keith
But absent that, if it's not actually threatening the safety of the child, it's usually not worth arguing about.
00:08:58 Jordan
And anymore, even when it is those kinds of situations,
00:09:03 Jordan
judges have gotten to a point where it's like, but show me something more.
00:09:07 Jordan
Show me something more than a one-time incident.
00:09:10 Jordan
I mean, obviously there's certain levels, but minor levels of stuff where they're just like, all right, show me something more.
00:09:16 Jordan
I understand that.
00:09:17 Jordan
But look, this is here we are and we've got this presumption of joint custody, joint legal, joint physical.
00:09:23 Jordan
I need something more.
00:09:24 Keith
Yeah.
00:09:24 Keith
And what I'll often hear the judge ask is, well, did you call police?
00:09:30 Keith
Did you raise the level of alarm outside of your home?
00:09:34 Keith
And if not, they almost treat it like it never happened, or at least they discount it significantly.
00:09:40 Jordan
Well, and they give you enough rope to hang yourself by.
00:09:43 Jordan
That's what it is.
00:09:44 Jordan
It's like, all right, well, if this person really is as bad as you are saying they are, let's see how they act during this case.
00:09:50 Jordan
We've got six months or so to a trial, right?
00:09:52 Jordan
So the process we start, we file a complaint.
00:09:56 Jordan
serve, open the case, or if there's a case already open, we file a motion to modify custody, whatever.
00:10:02 Jordan
Six weeks or so later, we see a judge, unless there's an emergency.
00:10:06 Jordan
We see the judge for the first time, they hear the case, they may or may make temporary orders, and then they're going to set us for a trial that's three to six months later, right?
00:10:15 Jordan
Well, that three to six month time period before we get to a trial, okay, here's joint custody.
00:10:21 Jordan
Let's see how you behave.
00:10:23 Jordan
And I've had people where they behave,
00:10:26 Jordan
I've also had people screw it up and they hang themselves.
00:10:30 Keith
Yeah.
00:10:31 Keith
And what I find interesting is as hard as we try to prepare our clients, right, as hard as we try to advise them, sometimes they just don't, they can't get out of their own way because they're so stuck on how they do things that they're not really listening, they're not paying attention, they're not recognizing that somebody else is about to make a significant decision
00:10:56 Keith
for them, and they need to be on their best behavior.
00:10:59 Keith
Now, that has, that's a bit of a two-edged sword, right?
00:11:02 Keith
Because then at least we see what they're really going to be like.
00:11:05 Keith
And again, they have a constitutional right, as you said.
00:11:09 Keith
They get to be the parent they are.
00:11:11 Keith
And we don't remove parents just because they aren't ideal.
00:11:15 Keith
That's what the dependency cases, the abuse and neglect cases are all about.
00:11:20 Keith
But they are about wrapping that parent with services so that they can learn.
00:11:24 Keith
The expectation is they're going to get their
00:11:26 Keith
Right.
00:11:27 Keith
So this is probably one of the hardest things I've seen or that I've experienced parents getting their arms around is they're going to have about half the time with their kids.
00:11:40 Keith
I had a client who really didn't want to divorce because it meant that she would have only half of the time watching her kids grow up.
00:11:51 Keith
But at the end of the day, it only takes one person to divorce.
00:11:54 Keith
And then the court's going to figure out the custody and hopefully we can get into some of the co-parenting things naturally, that they'll do it cooperatively, that they will share the information about the doctors and the schools, that they'll make those decisions together and cooperatively.
00:12:13 Jordan
Well, and that's what I, it's some people, because they've had a relationship where they weren't cooperative through the relationship either.
00:12:21 Jordan
And so they get to this point and they're like, well, this is what
00:12:24 Jordan
We've always related with each other.
00:12:26 Jordan
And it's like, but you can't now, because now you've got a third party looking over what you're doing.
00:12:32 Jordan
And if you want to avoid having the judge, even if you don't lose custody, you don't want the judge looking at you are the problem child.
00:12:41 Jordan
You are the problem in this case.
00:12:43 Jordan
And therefore,
00:12:45 Jordan
everything through the flow of the case will go against you because there's a lot more than just custody that can be decided in the case.
00:12:52 Jordan
And if you get the appearance of being the bad actor because you're not co-parenting, you're not cooperating with the other side, those other things come back and bite you in other ways.
00:13:02 Jordan
You know, I have seen that so many times and I got a case recently where, you know, the parties are,
00:13:11 Jordan
There's a lot of other hostilities reasons going on in the background, but the way they've communicated with each other has never been good, never been ideal by any means.
00:13:22 Jordan
And so when you ask either side of them, they're both like, well, no, I ain't going to do that.
00:13:27 Jordan
Not productive, not productive for the child.
00:13:29 Jordan
The court's not going to like it.
00:13:31 Jordan
Everybody's going to be unhappy in that case.
00:13:33 Jordan
But also small things, you know, things that most people probably overlook that would be
00:13:40 Jordan
basic for co-parenting.
00:13:41 Jordan
Like, for example, well, we've got this schedule that says, you know, you get Sunday through Wednesday and you get Thursday through Sunday.
00:13:51 Jordan
That's our that's our parenting schedule.
00:13:52 Jordan
Well, you know, I've got a wedding coming up next weekend.
00:13:57 Jordan
Can I have the whole weekend?
00:13:59 Jordan
No, that's my time.
00:14:01 Keith
Yeah.
00:14:02 Jordan
You're talking about losing one day out of
00:14:06 Jordan
a whole year potentially that you're giving up so the other person can celebrate with, which should be a positive thing with the children or child involved and their family having this wedding and you're shutting it down because it's your time, that one day.
00:14:20 Jordan
That's where the co-parenting, that's where I see it fall apart all the time.
00:14:24 Jordan
It's like, look, you need to get a reality check.
00:14:26 Jordan
It's just one day.
00:14:28 Jordan
You're gonna want some point in the future, want something similar for yourself.
00:14:32 Jordan
And you're gonna say, well, but my reason's more important than their reason.
00:14:35 Keith
No, Yeah, and we can address a lot of these things in the parenting plan.
00:14:42 Keith
In fact, a good parenting plan usually sets people up for success, but it's gotta be underwritten by this idea of cooperation, of give and take, being willing to allow the other parent to establish those one-offs
00:14:58 Keith
in a way that doesn't become a fight.
00:15:00 Keith
And if you can do that, then the parenting plan is more likely to succeed.
00:15:06 Keith
particularly, one of the things that I've seen just came to mind anyway, was the difference between like a 2-2-3 schedule, which is where one parent has Monday, Tuesday, the other parent has Thursday, Friday, I'm sorry, Wednesday, Thursday,
00:15:22 Keith
Start again.
00:15:23 Keith
One parent has Monday, Tuesday, the other parent has Wednesday, Thursday, and then they alternate Friday, Saturday.
00:15:28 Jordan
Which I love that schedule.
00:15:29 Keith
I do too for small kids, right?
00:15:32 Keith
But not for middle school and high schoolers who now have their own lives there.
00:15:36 Keith
They've got peers they want to spend time with.
00:15:38 Keith
That makes it more difficult, particularly if the parents live some distance apart.
00:15:43 Keith
But these are all things that can be considered in the parenting plan and should be.
00:15:49 Keith
But what happens when the kid comes home and says, hey, Susie in my class has this birthday party, I want to go to it, but it's on the other parent's time.
00:16:02 Jordan
Right.
00:16:03 Keith
Okay, you should be talking about those things.
00:16:07 Jordan
And it shouldn't be a result where the child is the one that suffers.
00:16:11 Jordan
Because ultimately that's what the judge is looking for.
00:16:14 Jordan
Not what's your situation, not what's your situation.
00:16:18 Jordan
The judge should be and usually is focused not on what the parties, but from the point of view of the child.
00:16:23 Jordan
And people miss that.
00:16:24 Jordan
They see it from their eyes.
00:16:26 Jordan
They got these blinders on.
00:16:27 Jordan
It's like, but this is my time and this is what I'm doing.
00:16:29 Jordan
It's like, okay, but what about the child?
00:16:33 Keith
Yeah.
00:16:33 Keith
And that's absolutely the case in 99% of the time, right?
00:16:39 Keith
There's that 1% where maybe it is important for the child to be, maybe it's a parent's wedding.
00:16:46 Keith
and maybe it's gonna take them across the weekend.
00:16:49 Keith
Maybe it's gonna take a week and it's not scheduled during their normal vacation period time, right?
00:16:56 Keith
It just, it undermines your own case if you object to those things.
00:17:00 Jordan
Well, and the other thing I see frequently when you got it is that there's other children from other relationships.
00:17:06 Keith
Oh yeah.
00:17:07 Jordan
And so when you're looking at a parenting plan
00:17:10 Jordan
And you're trying to work it out, be cognizant that they have half siblings or step siblings.
00:17:16 Jordan
And these step siblings, they've grown up for years.
00:17:19 Jordan
So they're just as much siblings as half and full siblings.
00:17:22 Keith
The kids don't know the difference.
00:17:23 Jordan
They don't know the difference.
00:17:24 Jordan
And so, you know, they may have things that they're doing with that other child and they want to include the siblings.
00:17:31 Jordan
And just from a personal level,
00:17:35 Jordan
the relationship what you have with my siblings and siblings is so important to your life and for your entire life.
00:17:41 Jordan
Like you've got to encourage that bond.
00:17:44 Jordan
You've got to make sure that is something that's important just because you don't like what that parent's doing.
00:17:49 Jordan
You don't like that.
00:17:51 Jordan
You may not even not like their other half sibling.
00:17:53 Jordan
Your child might.
00:17:54 Jordan
Your child has a bond there and it's important for them to be as part of those things.
00:17:58 Jordan
So you've got to work.
00:17:59 Jordan
Hey, they're going to spend 2 hours at a birthday party and the other kids,
00:18:04 Jordan
your kid's invited.
00:18:06 Jordan
Let him go.
00:18:07 Jordan
Let him go.
00:18:08 Jordan
And if it really isn't that important, hey, I only get a weekend, you know, I only get every other weekend and you're cutting into my every other weekend.
00:18:16 Jordan
Ask for another weekend.
00:18:17 Jordan
Yeah.
00:18:18 Keith
And this goes directly to the statutory factors that the court has to look at, right?
00:18:25 Keith
Not only do we look at the importance of sibling rivalries, and if somebody wants to look it up, it's NRS 125C0035 sub 4, right?
00:18:34 Keith
There's a dozen factors in there.
00:18:36 Keith
Some of them won't apply to most cases, like the appointment of a guardianship usually doesn't apply.
00:18:41 Keith
But if the kid's old enough to express a preference,
00:18:47 Keith
They get to, the judge looks at that, right?
00:18:50 Keith
What does the child want?
00:18:52 Keith
The one that I find most important probably is the willingness of the parents to cooperate to make sure that the other co-parent has a relationship with the kids.
00:19:04 Keith
If you get in the way of that, your boat is taken on water, right?
00:19:09 Keith
It may not be sunk, but it's taken on water.
00:19:11 Keith
And then the other one that's closely related to that is can the parents cooperate to meet the needs of the kids?
00:19:17 Keith
So if you come in and you say, nope, that's my time, even if it is, you're only getting every other weekend, right?
00:19:24 Keith
It's no, that's my time.
00:19:25 Keith
I'm taking my time.
00:19:26 Keith
I don't want to have less time.
00:19:28 Keith
You know, the judge is looking at this from the perspective of what does the kid need?
00:19:32 Keith
And then, you know, they look at, well, you're going to have these discussions until the kid's 18.
00:19:38 Keith
So if we're talking about a one-year-old,
00:19:41 Keith
Exactly.
00:19:43 Keith
And so we get into these situations where the parents are looking at this fairly myopically and not really viewing it the way the judge would.
00:19:54 Keith
Now that's where we come in, right?
00:19:55 Keith
And that's about what we call client control.
00:19:59 Keith
Absolutely.
00:20:00 Keith
But it's about making sure our clients are educated.
00:20:03 Keith
At least they know what the judge is looking at.
00:20:06 Keith
And so we go through these factors and there's, as I said, there's a dozen of them.
00:20:10 Keith
But they're all important.
00:20:13 Keith
In fact, the courts have to look at all of them.
00:20:17 Keith
And so we as attorneys have to weigh each one and show the court, well, this is why it weighs for or against us.
00:20:23 Keith
But the parents need to understand the broader picture is you got to pay attention to what's in the best interest of the child.
00:20:32 Keith
And if you're not, you're going to lose.
00:20:34 Jordan
And what I hear all the time, though, is
00:20:37 Jordan
But the other side's getting away with murder.
00:20:39 Jordan
Why am I doing all, I'm followed, I'm doing everything you say, I'm doing all the good stuff.
00:20:43 Jordan
They're getting away with, I want to do what they're doing.
00:20:44 Jordan
I want to be bad too, kind of thing, right?
00:20:46 Keith
Yeah, it's surprising how often that happens.
00:20:49 Jordan
And so it's like, yes, the other side's doing things that they're not supposed to be doing.
00:20:54 Jordan
And you're not getting an immediate reaction from the judge necessarily.
00:20:57 Jordan
They're like, you know, hammering the other side.
00:21:00 Jordan
But they are taking note every time.
00:21:02 Jordan
They are taking note.
00:21:04 Jordan
And if this does have to go to trial for whatever reason or an evidentiary
00:21:07 Jordan
hearing, it matters then.
00:21:10 Jordan
You didn't think it mattered earlier, but it surprisingly how much the judges remember about the little bad acts that then affect either the credibility, they affect how they perceive the other side's potential testimony.
00:21:25 Jordan
And even if you don't at that time, maybe you come back to court a year later.
00:21:30 Jordan
And all of a sudden the judge says, but the last time you hear, sir, you were doing this, that, and the other thing, and you're doing it again.
00:21:36 Jordan
I'm kind of over it.
00:21:39 Keith
Yeah.
00:21:39 Keith
I have a case right now where dad is ex-military, right?
00:21:44 Keith
And I made the mistake of saying to him, well, sometimes we have to lose a battle to win the war.
00:21:48 Keith
And he said, that's not how it works.
00:21:50 Keith
It's attack, attack, attack, attack, right?
00:21:53 Keith
And I said, okay, bad analogy.
00:21:54 Keith
I don't know what I'm talking about.
00:21:56 Keith
You know, okay, we won't go down that road again.
00:21:59 Keith
But it's, look, you know, there's a reason why we're taking a beating now.
00:22:04 Keith
Yeah, they're getting away with murder, but we're noting this.
00:22:06 Keith
We're logging it.
00:22:07 Keith
We're recording it so that when the time comes, we can say, well, judge, let me enlighten you.
00:22:16 Keith
Let me show you the whole picture.
00:22:17 Keith
And guess what?
00:22:18 Keith
It came up.
00:22:19 Keith
You know, we couldn't reach an agreement.
00:22:21 Keith
We thought we were driving towards settlement, but it turns out the other side apparently never intended to settle.
00:22:27 Keith
And so we got to bring all this stuff up.
00:22:31 Keith
When we couldn't reach a settlement, it's like, okay, we need some temporary orders.
00:22:36 Keith
And now we've got all this evidence showing how we were trying to be accommodating.
00:22:41 Keith
We were trying to reach agreement.
00:22:43 Keith
We were trying to find the least offensive way of getting this done.
00:22:48 Keith
And they were always, nope, that doesn't work for me, won't work.
00:22:51 Keith
Now I get to show that to the court.
00:22:54 Keith
This litany of bad acts that you missed out.
00:22:56 Keith
Yeah.
00:22:57 Keith
And so it becomes something where, okay, we just took what looked to be a negative up front.
00:23:04 Keith
as a positive in the long-term litigation strategy.
00:23:08 Keith
Now, I truly believe this case is going to settle.
00:23:10 Keith
Most cases, 95 or 97% of cases settle.
00:23:14 Keith
And so this one will too.
00:23:16 Keith
But it took a little bit of time to get us to a point where that slap that we finally got in meant something.
00:23:25 Keith
it just doesn't pay to, complain up front about the little stuff.
00:23:29 Keith
Let it build.
00:23:30 Keith
Let it, do the right thing no matter what the other side's doing.
00:23:34 Keith
And eventually it's going to pay dividends.
00:23:36 Jordan
And when you're talking about co-parenting, you want to be the one to come in with the positive story.
00:23:42 Keith
Right.
00:23:42 Jordan
That it is so much more impactful than
00:23:47 Jordan
saying the other side is bad and all the bad things they do.
00:23:50 Jordan
Yeah, that's important too.
00:23:51 Jordan
I mean, it has an impact.
00:23:52 Jordan
But when you come in and you say, you know what, I reached out to the other side.
00:23:56 Jordan
They asked for this.
00:23:57 Jordan
I said, okay.
00:23:58 Jordan
It was hurting my time.
00:24:00 Jordan
It was hurting my schedule.
00:24:01 Jordan
I made it because it was important for the other side to do that.
00:24:04 Jordan
They wanted to be a part of this.
00:24:06 Jordan
I made sure because I told them every time that they had a soccer game and I invited them.
00:24:11 Jordan
Hell, I went and picked them up so that because they didn't have a ride, I picked them up and took them to the soccer game.
00:24:16 Jordan
Those kind of positive things are 10 times more impactful for each one little negative thing for the judges.
00:24:24 Jordan
And when they have to make a decision, every time they will cite to those positive things.
00:24:28 Jordan
Cite to it every time.
00:24:31 Keith
And the beautiful thing is if you do that, not only are you more likely to succeed in litigation if you can't reach an agreement, but usually it
00:24:41 Keith
lends to the agreement.
00:24:42 Keith
If you're always the one, yeah, okay, I'm gonna take this one too.
00:24:47 Keith
I'm gonna, you know, they always say, well, why should I give in?
00:24:50 Keith
It's not giving in.
00:24:51 Keith
It's giving your child what the child may need.
00:24:54 Keith
But okay, say it is giving in.
00:24:56 Keith
Say it doesn't matter.
00:24:58 Keith
You know, it's 6 of 1, half a dozen of another, but they want it that way.
00:25:02 Keith
What happens if you do it?
00:25:04 Keith
You know, I don't remember if it's judo or something else, but
00:25:08 Keith
Years ago, I heard that one of the, and I think it's judo, where rather than resist an attack, right, if somebody grabs you, don't try to pull away, because what happens when you pull away?
00:25:21 Keith
They're going to tighten their grip.
00:25:23 Keith
Instead, you relax into it, and they're more likely to relax your grip, right?
00:25:27 Keith
Well, the same thing applies here.
00:25:29 Keith
Now, one of the things I like to suggest people do is there's a book out there called Parenting with Love
00:25:38 Keith
Logic.
00:25:39 Keith
It's by Klein and Fay.
00:25:41 Keith
It's a fairly easy read.
00:25:43 Keith
And it's about how to parent kids.
00:25:46 Keith
How do you get kids, how do you stay out of the fight, the power struggle with the kids, particularly once they get into their terrible twos and they're now getting up towards school age?
00:25:57 Keith
You know, it's one of the strategies they suggest.
00:26:01 Keith
that I suggest people read, not because it's, I think that they're bad parents and they need to learn how to parent their kids better, not at all.
00:26:09 Keith
It's the strategies work with the co-parent too.
00:26:13 Keith
So, it's one of the things that they do and there's a litany of suggestions that they make.
00:26:19 Keith
But the one that I like to come out with first is when you're dealing with a child who is complaining about getting ready for school, okay, they don't want to get dressed, whatever.
00:26:29 Keith
The parent walks in and says, okay, got to get you ready for school.
00:26:33 Keith
Do you want to wear the blue pants or the green pants?
00:26:36 Keith
Okay, well, you can live with either one.
00:26:38 Keith
It doesn't matter, right?
00:26:39 Keith
But now the kid gets a choice.
00:26:41 Keith
They feel like they're participating.
00:26:43 Keith
They're more likely to cooperate.
00:26:44 Keith
You do the same thing with a parent.
00:26:46 Keith
Well, look, okay, we've got this problem.
00:26:48 Keith
Here are two solutions that I think would solve this.
00:26:52 Keith
Would you rather have A or B?
00:26:54 Keith
Again, they're going to think, okay, I'm participating in the decision.
00:26:58 Keith
I'm more likely to follow it that way.
00:27:00 Keith
And that's something I tell people about mediation as well.
00:27:03 Keith
But you're giving them options that you can live with.
00:27:06 Keith
If there are always options you can live with, you never have to fight.
00:27:10 Jordan
Well, and I think that's the key point you're right there is instead of arguing, instead of taking a position,
00:27:17 Jordan
problem solve.
00:27:18 Jordan
Come at a disagreement or an issue from an approach of how do we solve this problem?
00:27:24 Jordan
You've got a valid concern on your side, or maybe not, but even if it's invalid, it's still something that has to be addressed.
00:27:30 Jordan
You and the other side.
00:27:32 Jordan
have the same issue.
00:27:33 Jordan
How do you solve that problem?
00:27:34 Jordan
Coming at an approach for problem solving instead of, well, I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to tell you and I'm going to show you why you're wrong.
00:27:42 Keith
And how many times have you been able to introduce as an exhibit a text string where your client, well, it doesn't matter.
00:27:50 Keith
Sometimes we're on the wrong side of this, right?
00:27:52 Keith
But one person is saying, look, this is a concern and the other one says, tough beans, I'm not going to help you versus
00:28:00 Keith
the other person comes out and says, this is a problem.
00:28:03 Keith
And your client hopefully is the one saying, how can I solve this?
00:28:07 Keith
Right?
00:28:07 Keith
The judge will latch onto that in.
00:28:13 Keith
They're going to go with that.
00:28:14 Keith
Even if it's not necessarily the best decision, they're going to go with it because you're trying to problem solve and that's what they want because they don't want to see you back in their courtroom.
00:28:24 Keith
They've got enough to do.
00:28:25 Jordan
No, absolutely.
00:28:26 Jordan
Anything that you could do to keep yourself out of their courtroom, they're in favor of.
00:28:29 Keith
Yeah, and so if they're going to view you as the problem solver and the other is the problem, you're probably going to succeed in whatever it is you're in the courtroom for.
00:28:37 Jordan
Well, and that leads to it's all about communications.
00:28:42 Jordan
especially, not only when you have to do it with a parent, but if the parent's in another state, the communications now went from being super important to out of the sky important because you don't have that daily ability to interact or, during every week to interact with a child.
00:29:02 Jordan
So how do you maintain that?
00:29:04 Jordan
How do you co-parent?
00:29:06 Keith
Beautifully now we have virtual visits, right?
00:29:09 Keith
The FaceTimes and the ability to get on the phone and talk to your child from the other side of the world sometimes, right?
00:29:20 Keith
But no, you're right.
00:29:21 Keith
I mean, that's the thing that I like to invite people to do is look for ways of increasing the contact.
00:29:29 Keith
That is counterintuitive to many parents who are trying to separate because they don't want more contact.
00:29:34 Keith
They want less contact with the other parent.
00:29:36 Keith
But I'm not talking about contact with them.
00:29:38 Keith
I'm talking about with the child.
00:29:41 Keith
And if you allow that contact, as long as it's appropriate, right?
00:29:45 Keith
It usually is.
00:29:46 Keith
But if you allow that contact, they're probably going to be less likely to come after you for other small stuff.
00:29:53 Jordan
And you don't have to talk to them about
00:29:56 Jordan
things.
00:29:56 Jordan
You can talk to them in a very neutral way about the child.
00:29:59 Jordan
So for example, on an everyday kind of basis, somebody's in one part of the country, somebody's on the opposite side, you can say, and you've got custody or primarily custody, you can say, hey, you know, little Johnny, you know, he had a great day in school today.
00:30:14 Jordan
He came home very excited.
00:30:16 Jordan
That could be something in a quick e-mail if that other parent calls to talk to the child at night, because that's often we have, you know, evening phone calls.
00:30:24 Jordan
When you pick up the phone for them to talk with a child, hey, I just wanted to let you know that Johnny had a great day in school today.
00:30:30 Jordan
You might want to talk to him about it.
00:30:32 Jordan
The teacher said that he did really good on this project.
00:30:37 Jordan
There's nothing to argue about.
00:30:38 Jordan
It's innocuous information that's beneficial to the other parent.
00:30:43 Jordan
If you put it in a text message even before, you might say, hey, when you have your phone call tonight, here's a text message.
00:30:49 Jordan
You know, Johnny had a great day in school today.
00:30:51 Jordan
He did well in a project and a teacher talked to him about it.
00:30:54 Jordan
Now he has a topic to talk about the child, about you look good because you're co-parenting, you're communicating with the other side.
00:31:01 Jordan
It's good all around.
00:31:02 Jordan
And most of all, it's good for the child.
00:31:03 Jordan
The child's now going to have a better experience with both you and the other parent.
00:31:07 Keith
Yeah.
00:31:08 Keith
And it amazes me how few people or how a few people miss that entirely.
00:31:13 Jordan
No, but the judges don't.
00:31:14 Keith
No, they don't.
00:31:15 Keith
They pay attention to all these things.
00:31:17 Keith
Yeah.
00:31:17 Keith
And you know, that's not to say, I mean, relationships,
00:31:22 Keith
have failed, right?
00:31:24 Keith
We have a good living because relationships fail.
00:31:28 Keith
So there are going to be conflicts.
00:31:29 Keith
You're going to experience those.
00:31:31 Keith
It's all about how you approach them.
00:31:34 Keith
And if you approach them with a conflictual attitude, you're going to get conflict and it's going to be expensive.
00:31:40 Keith
If you approach it with more of a cooperative approach and problem solving,
00:31:45 Keith
Maybe it's still going to go to court, but at least you're going to look like the problem solver and it's probably going to go your way.
00:31:50 Jordan
Absolutely.
00:31:51 Jordan
I mean, we'll happily take your money, but ultimately we're here to help you get through this, solve the problems, get what's out of the courtroom, get what's best for your child, gets, you know, and we represent people to get, you know, their interests.
00:32:04 Jordan
But ultimately, the judge is there to make what's for the judge.
00:32:07 Jordan
And so you can't be selfish in your representation.
00:32:11 Jordan
You can't be selfish in your request to the judge because they want to see that co-parenting.
00:32:16 Jordan
And if that's not there, guess what?
00:32:17 Jordan
That might affect your child custody.
00:32:20 Keith
And it probably will.
00:32:24 Keith
It's, well, I liken what I do to the opposite of a criminal defense attorney.
00:32:30 Keith
Now, I'm not dissing criminal defense attorneys.
00:32:33 Keith
We need them.
00:32:34 Keith
But, you know, it's, they represent
00:32:37 Keith
bad people on their best day, right?
00:32:39 Keith
They always look great, they're always dressed well, they don't have all their gang stuff showing, whatever that may be, right?
00:32:46 Keith
But we represent really good people on their worst day.
00:32:50 Keith
That this is the worst time in their lives and this stuff brings out the worst, right?
00:32:55 Jordan
Yeah, absolutely.
00:32:56 Keith
But if the judge sees the worst,
00:32:59 Keith
then you're going to have a harder time.
00:33:01 Keith
So I also tell people, I never get rich off of any one client.
00:33:07 Keith
In fact, the more wealthy clients that come in, they usually want to keep their money.
00:33:12 Keith
So they do what they can to settle and get out of there.
00:33:16 Keith
But we will never get rich off of any one client.
00:33:19 Keith
So we try to do this in the best possible way.
00:33:22 Keith
we have, as we have two rules in this office, just two.
00:33:27 Keith
Number one,
00:33:28 Keith
We want to make this place a place where everybody wants to come to work.
00:33:33 Keith
We work as a team, and so we've got the resources of our entire team.
00:33:39 Keith
We're the second or third largest dedicated family law firm in Nevada.
00:33:43 Keith
So, we've got a team, we've got a lot of experience, we've got a lot of know-how, and we work as a team, but we've got to act like it, right?
00:33:50 Keith
We've got to care enough about each other to help each other.
00:33:53 Keith
That's rule #1.
00:33:54 Jordan
And that rule benefits the clients.
00:33:56 Keith
Absolutely.
00:33:58 Keith
Absolutely.
00:33:58 Keith
And then the second one is close to it, which is that the client comes in and has the best possible experience, right?
00:34:05 Keith
That doesn't mean we win.
00:34:06 Keith
We don't win all of our, the goals for, yeah, I wish.
00:34:11 Keith
We can't always achieve the client's goals, right?
00:34:13 Keith
They may be out of reach from the start, but we're going to do our best.
00:34:16 Keith
We're going to give them the best possible experience.
00:34:18 Keith
And with those two rules in place, nothing else really matters.
00:34:22 Keith
And so if we're working with them, we're trying to get them to see things the way the judge is going to be looking at this, they're going to have a good outcome, relatively speaking.
00:34:34 Jordan
And that's ultimately, that's all we can do is get the best possible outcome under the circumstances and facts that come to us.
00:34:41 Jordan
I think that's about all we have on this.
00:34:45 Jordan
I mean, we might talk about any questions that answers that we can offer on this.
00:34:53 Jordan
thanks for everybody for listening in and this.
00:34:55 Keith
Yeah, if you've got any questions or things, of course, the best possible scenario is talk to an attorney, right?
00:35:02 Keith
Don't rely on what you see on Google.
00:35:06 Keith
Most of it's probably pretty good, but it's not the same as a law degree, and it certainly doesn't replace the experience of a good lawyer.
00:35:13 Keith
So get, if you have specific needs, get advice detailed or tailored to those needs.
00:35:22 Keith
But contact us.
00:35:24 Keith
Send us, contact us through our website or through social media.
00:35:28 Keith
Let us know what's on your mind and we can probably address it.
00:35:31 Jordan
Yeah, so we can know, help you with the specifics of your case potentially.
00:35:35 Jordan
And an attorney, a good attorney, is going to know the judge in your case.
00:35:40 Jordan
And knowing the judge in your case is extremely important.
00:35:42 Jordan
And you're going to get that when you go see the attorney, get a consultation.
00:35:47 Jordan
and figure out what makes sense for your particular situation, because everybody's case is unique.
00:35:52 Keith
Right, and I'd like to think that there's nobody that will exceed our abilities here, but it's all about fit.
00:36:00 Keith
And talking about hiring an attorney wasn't something I was thinking about talking about, but fit is everything.
00:36:06 Keith
You've got to find somebody that you can work with, somebody that you believe in, somebody you'll follow their advice.
00:36:12 Keith
Because if you don't follow their advice, they can't help you.
00:36:14 Jordan
Yeah, absolutely.
00:36:16 Keith
Thank you for paying attention.
00:36:18 Keith
We may be a little long-winded, but hopefully we've helped you with something.
00:36:23 Keith
If you have any questions, give us a call.
00:36:25 Jordan
Reach out to us.
00:36:25 Jordan
Yeah, e-mail, phone call, website.
00:36:28 Jordan
We like it all.
00:36:29 Keith
Yeah.
00:36:30 Keith
All right.
00:36:30 Keith
Thank you.